<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments for Covering and Authority</title>
	<atom:link href="http://coveringandauthority.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://coveringandauthority.com</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:50:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>Comment on Why it is false by Robert</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/why-it-is-false/comment-page-1/#comment-5673</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=360#comment-5673</guid>
		<description>Excellent points, LT. I have experienced some &#039;authoritarian arrogance&#039; recently. I was a small group leader in my non-denom church. A busy-body, ambitious member reported to the pastors that I had &#039;a glass of wine&#039; at a restaurant bar....so the pastor &#039;called me in&#039; and tried to chastise me. I defended my character appropriately. Later, they wouldn&#039;t let me be a small group leader anymore, nor serve communion as I had been scheduled. 
Yes...I was &#039;in rebellion&#039; they had decided. So I s&#039;pose they were punishing me.
I met with them again, and they denied they were an &#039;authoritarian&#039; church structure....then proceeded to talk harshly to me, tell me I had lied to them that I would never &#039;drink&#039; in a bar, and when I acted like I was amazed at what was happening, they told me I &#039;did not respect them as pastors&#039;! I wish I had it all on video. Behind closed doors with them was totally different than what is presented by the Sr Pastor on stage!
Fortunately, I am mature in Christ and can see it for what it is. 
Thanks so much for your time spent in keeping this website current.....I&#039;ll bet we see more of this type behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent points, LT. I have experienced some &#8216;authoritarian arrogance&#8217; recently. I was a small group leader in my non-denom church. A busy-body, ambitious member reported to the pastors that I had &#8216;a glass of wine&#8217; at a restaurant bar&#8230;.so the pastor &#8216;called me in&#8217; and tried to chastise me. I defended my character appropriately. Later, they wouldn&#8217;t let me be a small group leader anymore, nor serve communion as I had been scheduled.<br />
Yes&#8230;I was &#8216;in rebellion&#8217; they had decided. So I s&#8217;pose they were punishing me.<br />
I met with them again, and they denied they were an &#8216;authoritarian&#8217; church structure&#8230;.then proceeded to talk harshly to me, tell me I had lied to them that I would never &#8216;drink&#8217; in a bar, and when I acted like I was amazed at what was happening, they told me I &#8216;did not respect them as pastors&#8217;! I wish I had it all on video. Behind closed doors with them was totally different than what is presented by the Sr Pastor on stage!<br />
Fortunately, I am mature in Christ and can see it for what it is.<br />
Thanks so much for your time spent in keeping this website current&#8230;..I&#8217;ll bet we see more of this type behavior.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Why it is false by WALTER KAMBULOW</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/why-it-is-false/comment-page-1/#comment-5645</link>
		<dc:creator>WALTER KAMBULOW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 07:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=360#comment-5645</guid>
		<description>&quot;And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, &#039;  These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword:  &quot;I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan&#039;s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.  &quot;But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. &quot;Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. &#039;Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. Revelation 2:13-16

&quot;Nicolaitans&quot; means &quot;Victorious over the people; a follower of Nicolaus, a heretic.&quot; Anyone who uses their leadership position to manipulate others is bumping up against the thing Jesus hates.  The Lord wants us to be under His control, no one else’s. But even He doesn’t use such tactics of manipulation. He wants willing obedience, not contrived. Our acceptance was paid for on the cross, therefore we need not be man- pleasers.  Jesus rules by example and through serving but Nicolaitans rules through manipulation and control.  

Nicolaitan authority is false authority. Therefore a believer is not required to submit to it. In fact he should take dominion over it. Nicolaitan authorities may try to label us as rebels, but Christ must reign supreme, regardless of what others say. 

The root of the word Nicolaitans comes from Greek nikao, to conquer or overcome, and laos, which means people and which the word laity comes from. The two words together especially means the destruction of the people and refers to the earliest form of what we call a priestly order or clergy which later on in church history divided people and allowed for leadership other than those led by the spirit of the risen Lord Jesus Christ. A good translation of Nicolaitan would be &quot;those who prevail over the people.&quot; This clerical system later developed into the papal hierarchy of priests and clergy lording over the flock. The Council of Trent stated, &quot;If anyone shall say that there is not in the Catholic Church a hierarchy established by the divine ordination, consisting of bishops, presbyters and ministers, let him be anathema.&quot; This very idea was taken over by the Protestants with their own corruption of church leadership. The Church of Ephesus was commended for hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans. The wrong separation of the clergy from the laity is a great evil in God&#039;s sight and He hates the lust for religious power. There is an ungodly spiritual authority in the Church today, which is nothing more than the prideful spirit of control, manipulation, domination and intimidation and a rebellion of the rightful authority of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, &#8216;  These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword:  &#8220;I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan&#8217;s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.  &#8220;But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. &#8220;Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. &#8216;Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. Revelation 2:13-16</p>
<p>&#8220;Nicolaitans&#8221; means &#8220;Victorious over the people; a follower of Nicolaus, a heretic.&#8221; Anyone who uses their leadership position to manipulate others is bumping up against the thing Jesus hates.  The Lord wants us to be under His control, no one else’s. But even He doesn’t use such tactics of manipulation. He wants willing obedience, not contrived. Our acceptance was paid for on the cross, therefore we need not be man- pleasers.  Jesus rules by example and through serving but Nicolaitans rules through manipulation and control.  </p>
<p>Nicolaitan authority is false authority. Therefore a believer is not required to submit to it. In fact he should take dominion over it. Nicolaitan authorities may try to label us as rebels, but Christ must reign supreme, regardless of what others say. </p>
<p>The root of the word Nicolaitans comes from Greek nikao, to conquer or overcome, and laos, which means people and which the word laity comes from. The two words together especially means the destruction of the people and refers to the earliest form of what we call a priestly order or clergy which later on in church history divided people and allowed for leadership other than those led by the spirit of the risen Lord Jesus Christ. A good translation of Nicolaitan would be &#8220;those who prevail over the people.&#8221; This clerical system later developed into the papal hierarchy of priests and clergy lording over the flock. The Council of Trent stated, &#8220;If anyone shall say that there is not in the Catholic Church a hierarchy established by the divine ordination, consisting of bishops, presbyters and ministers, let him be anathema.&#8221; This very idea was taken over by the Protestants with their own corruption of church leadership. The Church of Ephesus was commended for hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans. The wrong separation of the clergy from the laity is a great evil in God&#8217;s sight and He hates the lust for religious power. There is an ungodly spiritual authority in the Church today, which is nothing more than the prideful spirit of control, manipulation, domination and intimidation and a rebellion of the rightful authority of God.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Why it is false by LT</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/why-it-is-false/comment-page-1/#comment-5627</link>
		<dc:creator>LT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=360#comment-5627</guid>
		<description>Chaneth

I&#039;m only going to teach what I see in scripture.  I don&#039;t put forth an alternative model of leadership because I think there are several approaches to church leadership that I find acceptable.  I don&#039;t want a debate over acceptable approaches to distract from the issue I&#039;m attempting to address.  

I believe that all authority has been given to Jesus, and our most reliable way of understanding what His will is, is found in scripture.  We can be convinced and convicted all we want about this teaching or that, but it if doesn&#039;t square with scripture it is very likely we are in rebellion to our ultimate authority: God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chaneth</p>
<p>I&#8217;m only going to teach what I see in scripture.  I don&#8217;t put forth an alternative model of leadership because I think there are several approaches to church leadership that I find acceptable.  I don&#8217;t want a debate over acceptable approaches to distract from the issue I&#8217;m attempting to address.  </p>
<p>I believe that all authority has been given to Jesus, and our most reliable way of understanding what His will is, is found in scripture.  We can be convinced and convicted all we want about this teaching or that, but it if doesn&#8217;t square with scripture it is very likely we are in rebellion to our ultimate authority: God.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Why it is false by Chaneth</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/why-it-is-false/comment-page-1/#comment-5610</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=360#comment-5610</guid>
		<description>Regards servant of God;

Thanks for the material herein presented. But I think it is very important to submit under some spiritual authority. It must not be particular or specific. If your problem is with just one of the reasons for which submitting is taught, it could be expedient to so present the matter in a way that does not completely rule out submission to authority. The truth is that there has been abuse; but that does not make the whole teaching of submission false. A man&#039;s walk with the Lord depends so much on maturity. When someone starts taking some decisions and sealing them in one way or the other, it portrays growth. Believe me, the person to whom I submit as father in the Lord entered a covenant with God that he can never die by motor accident; and as I submit to him, I know I am covered by this covenant. Please let&#039;s teach that some people in authority have abused those who submit to them but I am convicted and convinced that there is less evil if at all in covering theology than is presented by those who teach against it.

May the Lord bless us all to be able to understand His word and His teachings both on issues that are Biblical and on issues that are Scriptural</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regards servant of God;</p>
<p>Thanks for the material herein presented. But I think it is very important to submit under some spiritual authority. It must not be particular or specific. If your problem is with just one of the reasons for which submitting is taught, it could be expedient to so present the matter in a way that does not completely rule out submission to authority. The truth is that there has been abuse; but that does not make the whole teaching of submission false. A man&#8217;s walk with the Lord depends so much on maturity. When someone starts taking some decisions and sealing them in one way or the other, it portrays growth. Believe me, the person to whom I submit as father in the Lord entered a covenant with God that he can never die by motor accident; and as I submit to him, I know I am covered by this covenant. Please let&#8217;s teach that some people in authority have abused those who submit to them but I am convicted and convinced that there is less evil if at all in covering theology than is presented by those who teach against it.</p>
<p>May the Lord bless us all to be able to understand His word and His teachings both on issues that are Biblical and on issues that are Scriptural</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Is submission to church leaders necessary for spiritual protection? by Sylvia Lazo</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-5565</link>
		<dc:creator>Sylvia Lazo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 19:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=88#comment-5565</guid>
		<description>The Word doesn&#039;t say &#039;serve and obey your leaders&#039;...(There is great freedom in simply READING the Bible for yourself, trusting the Holy Spirit to do His job, that is lead you into all truth and teach you).  
 The Bible DOES say that while Christ is the head of my man(my husband.yes I am a woman), &amp; my man is the head of me...that is a Biblical and very safe place for me to be. It doesn&#039;t however, mention anything about a pastor OR worship leader being in authority OVER me. 
 I have been in several different local fellowships, one in particular that fully supported the ideas above, showing the full course of Authority and Submission by J Bevere. 
 These places that call themselves churches doing the will of God, cause much hurt and damage to people. 
 On the other hand, there is a church in Carpinteria, California known as Reality Carpinteria, that our son attends, and is now on staff, that doesn&#039;t actually hold to some ofthese more pathetic and harmful teachings. All I see in Reality is that the people love Jesus and love people....
 I am frankly so tired of &#039;churches&#039; I&#039;m not inclined to attend any  any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Word doesn&#8217;t say &#8217;serve and obey your leaders&#8217;&#8230;(There is great freedom in simply READING the Bible for yourself, trusting the Holy Spirit to do His job, that is lead you into all truth and teach you).<br />
 The Bible DOES say that while Christ is the head of my man(my husband.yes I am a woman), &amp; my man is the head of me&#8230;that is a Biblical and very safe place for me to be. It doesn&#8217;t however, mention anything about a pastor OR worship leader being in authority OVER me.<br />
 I have been in several different local fellowships, one in particular that fully supported the ideas above, showing the full course of Authority and Submission by J Bevere.<br />
 These places that call themselves churches doing the will of God, cause much hurt and damage to people.<br />
 On the other hand, there is a church in Carpinteria, California known as Reality Carpinteria, that our son attends, and is now on staff, that doesn&#8217;t actually hold to some ofthese more pathetic and harmful teachings. All I see in Reality is that the people love Jesus and love people&#8230;.<br />
 I am frankly so tired of &#8216;churches&#8217; I&#8217;m not inclined to attend any  any more.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Is submission to church leaders necessary for spiritual protection? by Robert</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-5199</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=88#comment-5199</guid>
		<description>I am currently in the midst of being &#039;distanced&#039; by several church people at the church where I have attended (&#039;one of the fastest growing in the nation&#039; by whoever measures this) for over a year, (and was in their transition to ministry program for 6 mos), because I think I am viewed as &#039;being in rebellion!&#039; by a couple of &#039;assoc pastors&#039;. lol. Yes, LT, it is rather silly...how a rockstar pastor can get the &#039;hungry for faith&#039; so fired up that they just &#039;know&#039; they are &#039;annointed for this in this generation&#039;, etc, etc.... 

Problem for me is, not my rebellion issue, but that this church does not make it transparent to members and visitors that it operates with this &#039;Spiritual Authority&#039; concept - to the severe degree it does. All of the &#039;leadership&#039; folks are under it and accept it (and of course, think they have some special annointing)...but the average Joe and Jane Christian attending knows nothing.

I&#039;ve been waiting for 2-3 weeks for couple of the elders I use to know...to respond to me (but they are &#039;busy&#039;). My simple question to them? &quot;Did I miss something? I was never told this authoritarian structure was in place to the degree it is&quot;. So far, nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am currently in the midst of being &#8216;distanced&#8217; by several church people at the church where I have attended (&#8216;one of the fastest growing in the nation&#8217; by whoever measures this) for over a year, (and was in their transition to ministry program for 6 mos), because I think I am viewed as &#8216;being in rebellion!&#8217; by a couple of &#8216;assoc pastors&#8217;. lol. Yes, LT, it is rather silly&#8230;how a rockstar pastor can get the &#8216;hungry for faith&#8217; so fired up that they just &#8216;know&#8217; they are &#8216;annointed for this in this generation&#8217;, etc, etc&#8230;. </p>
<p>Problem for me is, not my rebellion issue, but that this church does not make it transparent to members and visitors that it operates with this &#8216;Spiritual Authority&#8217; concept &#8211; to the severe degree it does. All of the &#8216;leadership&#8217; folks are under it and accept it (and of course, think they have some special annointing)&#8230;but the average Joe and Jane Christian attending knows nothing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been waiting for 2-3 weeks for couple of the elders I use to know&#8230;to respond to me (but they are &#8216;busy&#8217;). My simple question to them? &#8220;Did I miss something? I was never told this authoritarian structure was in place to the degree it is&#8221;. So far, nothing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Is submission to church leaders necessary for spiritual protection? by LT</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-5187</link>
		<dc:creator>LT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=88#comment-5187</guid>
		<description>Brent

I have a question for you.  You said &quot;The word say’s serve and obey your leaders.&quot;  Could you point me to the places in the bible where it says this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brent</p>
<p>I have a question for you.  You said &#8220;The word say’s serve and obey your leaders.&#8221;  Could you point me to the places in the bible where it says this?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Is submission to church leaders necessary for spiritual protection? by Brent</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-5185</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 07:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=88#comment-5185</guid>
		<description>What a sad state where Christians get hurt by leaders and turn septic. The word say&#039;s serve and obey your leaders. It does not say serve if you feel like it. Or serve unless they ask you to tithe etc.
I rebelled once against one I regarded as off the mark. But God MADE me sit at his feet in true biblical example. Why? Because thats Gods plan and also because that leader is Gods problem not mine. When I finally did God took me out to serve one who taugt Kingdom principles correctly and if I had not learnt the lesson I did, I would not have been able to submit to this othe Pastors leadership properly. 
There is TRUE freedom in serving one who is a true Apostle, one who had fruit and one who&#039;s complete family (4 generations) are in the church. Without that, the leader is false according to scripture as he cannot manage his own family.
If you cannot find a true spiritual father, hang on until you do - after all, you are God&#039;s problem. If you decide otherwise then you are decidign that God cannot redeem your situation.
Don&#039;t make the same mistake I did before realising. On the oher hand, making the mistake does make you see clearer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a sad state where Christians get hurt by leaders and turn septic. The word say&#8217;s serve and obey your leaders. It does not say serve if you feel like it. Or serve unless they ask you to tithe etc.<br />
I rebelled once against one I regarded as off the mark. But God MADE me sit at his feet in true biblical example. Why? Because thats Gods plan and also because that leader is Gods problem not mine. When I finally did God took me out to serve one who taugt Kingdom principles correctly and if I had not learnt the lesson I did, I would not have been able to submit to this othe Pastors leadership properly.<br />
There is TRUE freedom in serving one who is a true Apostle, one who had fruit and one who&#8217;s complete family (4 generations) are in the church. Without that, the leader is false according to scripture as he cannot manage his own family.<br />
If you cannot find a true spiritual father, hang on until you do &#8211; after all, you are God&#8217;s problem. If you decide otherwise then you are decidign that God cannot redeem your situation.<br />
Don&#8217;t make the same mistake I did before realising. On the oher hand, making the mistake does make you see clearer!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Is submission to church leaders necessary for spiritual protection? by sange</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-5043</link>
		<dc:creator>sange</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 18:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=88#comment-5043</guid>
		<description>thank you. After suffering much abuse serving this system my family and I nearly lost our way. men abusing in the name of christ whom we had to forgive and serve none the less left us broke angry at god. THANK god we jhave since gained a deeper understandin and are now letting the BLOOD OF jESUS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT GUIDE US. LORD HELP THE SHEEP WHO NEED YOU</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you. After suffering much abuse serving this system my family and I nearly lost our way. men abusing in the name of christ whom we had to forgive and serve none the less left us broke angry at god. THANK god we jhave since gained a deeper understandin and are now letting the BLOOD OF jESUS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT GUIDE US. LORD HELP THE SHEEP WHO NEED YOU</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Heb 13:17 by Mark</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/scriptures-used-in-covering-theology/heb-1317-obey-your-leaders-and-submit-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-5020</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://organicchurch.ca/?page_id=12#comment-5020</guid>
		<description>I came across this post doing a google search to find info on the greek word for &quot;leader&quot; in Hebrews 13.  Your post, although not exactly matching my search, gave the information I desired, as I really was after info on &quot;obey&quot;.  Your post was most helpful.

Mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came across this post doing a google search to find info on the greek word for &#8220;leader&#8221; in Hebrews 13.  Your post, although not exactly matching my search, gave the information I desired, as I really was after info on &#8220;obey&#8221;.  Your post was most helpful.</p>
<p>Mark</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
