That is, whether or not I am allowed to serve in a certain area of the church is something I should submit to with being contentious – that is under the church leadership’s discretion, and they are given authority to rule over such things.

However, I am the priest of my relationship with God in certain areas. If a pastor says ‘marry this person’ or ‘take this job’ I certainly am not being rebellious if I say ‘no’ – because none of these things are under the sphere of pastoral authority. As a priest individual believers are accountable for these kinds of decisions, and in such matters it is actually the church authority that would need to submit to the individual’s authority as priest – that is, a leader could certainly share or ‘submit’ their thoughts in these areas to the believer, and yet have to acknowledge the individual believers ultimate authority… in the same way a congregation member may suggest an opinion on who would make a good youth leader but would have to leave this in the hands of the leadership.

What I haven’t seen commonly taught is that all the parties in the body need to acknowledge authority and honor the authority given to each one… it doesn’t just go one way.

peace to all

I kept telling the Pastor that there is manipulation going on in the church, and treated me as if I was crazy, troubled. Even though there is much to overcome because of my life, God is at work and the enemy has been hiding unnoticed to continue to manipulate the word of God to exercise control and make men gods instead of God having the ultimate power and authority. The teaching of God is clearly evident in what you have conveyed through the Holy Spirit and supported through the Word of God. I know that the enemy wants me out of that church so his deeds dont become manifest into those who cannot see. The Holy Spirit has been leading me and showing me and the table that you have outlined is exactly what has been happening to me. It is more authoritarian submission in the church than biblical submission in the church. May God Bless You and keep speaking the truth love from your sister xxx

I’ve been led by God to do some programs outside the church…like singing events, seminars for singles etc. I also have 2 openings to minister in songs to old peoples home.

My pastor thinks these events should be for the church. He said I bit more than I can chew at the first singing event I organized because I did almost everything by myself….but God took the glory as we had about 220-250 people at the praise night. I am just passionate for God. I may not be the best person…but I love God and I want to serve Him in a different way with all I’ve got. Now, I’m being very careful about organizing the next event. Because I’m afraid of what they’ll say. I’m being careful about involving members of the church because I do not want anything that will cause offence. I have met with my pastor a number of times to explain that the event is non-church. During one of our discussions, they said to me that the

I told my pastor I do not want to be a pastor or have a flair to be one but I just want to set up an organization to organize events for the Lord with my money and time. My activities and commitments in church are however not reduced. But my pastor does not agree with me. Maybe because I’m a deaconess in the church. I’ve been praying about church leadership and that I do not want to disrespect authority…my search led to this website.

I do not want to meet with him to discuss the issue anymore as I do not want to be seen as rebellious….plus I’ve met with him at least 3 times.

Is there something I’m missing? What do you counsel?

Crusader

Honestly I don’t really know enough about your situation to be confident in offering helpful advice.

I am struggling with submitting to a home group leader. There is no relationship and I have been requested by our pastor to support him. Problem is after more than 6 months I find myself being resentful in my heart towards him. I simply do not agree with the manner in which the home group is conducted and this was discussed with him and his wife in a meeting with myself and my wife (after we had spoken with our pastor, so we had his permission and he was aware of our concerns)
Do we continue to attend home group whilst we do not really want to be there ?(it is not only about us, there are others who benefit from our input)
Perhaps the Lord is teaching us about submission. We do not want to bring judgement on ourselves, as happened to Miriam.
Regards
Wayne

I think you lost me when you say I should read Under Cover. I have written quite extensively about the book and have read it a number of times and listened to many hours of sermons based on his book. I don’t believe in Bevere’s definition of submission because I don’t believe it is based on scripture. I have the definition of hupotasso listed on the original post on this page.

Nevertheless the point of this website isn’t really to debate gender roles, there are other websites that do a better job of that. While I don’t find any biblical basis for the concept of Coverings there is a legitimate theological debate over what Paul and Peter thought about gender and submission.

With all due respect I’m not interested in playing games with people that I say “should” read something or that my positions are not based on scripture.

If you wish to offer legitimate criticism of something I’ve actually written feel free. Otherwise I’m not really interested.

I didn’t give my thoughts or opinions. You however gave your opinions and thoughts. Everything that I said was a quote from the bible and it wasn’t my argument. I see you didn’t argue with the scriptures. I too am married to a godly woman who is filled with the holy spirit. Many times she hears from God in her spirit and tells me which way we ought to go and I listen to her. I don’t control or dominate her and I love her and treat her as my equal.

You are missing the point. The point is that God through the writings of the apostles tells the wife to be submissive to the husband in everything. Those are not my words my friend. It also tells the wife to submit to an ungodly husband so that he will be won over by her attitude and heart. Not my words but it’s in the bible.

What you are also failing to mention is that submission is more than just an act of the will but it is an attitude of the heart. You should read John Bevere’s book Undercover to get more insight. Anyways I will give you an example so you understand what I mean. If I tell my wife to cheat on our taxes and demand that she does this because I’m the head of the house. This is an extreme example and something that I would never do but so that you get the point. My wife. My wife would say something like: Joaquim I’m bot going to do that because it’s against God and I can’t do that. We need to be honest in our dealings with people. I pray that you understand my reason for not doing it. In the example my wife is still submitted to me even though she didn’t obey what I said. She wouldn’t say you jerk how could you ask me to do something so stupid. I thought you were a man of God you must be an idiot for asking me to do such a thing. That would be an act of an unsubmissive heart toward her head.

As you can see submission doesnt mean obedience at any cost. It does always have to do with the right attitude, heart, respect, and honor to a superior, leader, or official.

I don’t find your argument convincing. The Holy Spirit works according to the will of the Spirit. Out of reverence for Christ I open myself up to receive the direction God has for me through anyone, including my wife. We follow Christ together. While none of the biblical authors directly instruct husbands to submit to their wives, their understanding of how the Holy Spirit works through the whole body of Christ would have meant they would have been open to the work of the Holy Spirit in women.

I believe the admonition to “submit one to another our of reverence for Christ” has to include husbands being open to receiving the Holy Spirit’s direction from through their wives and acknowledging the giftedness of their wives.