Covering and Authority

Published by LT on 20 Nov 2008 at 03:17 pm

Is submission to church leaders necessary for spiritual protection?

24 Responses to “Is submission to church leaders necessary for spiritual protection?”

1. sange on 13 Jul 2010 at 6:40 pm #

   thank you. After suffering much abuse serving this system my family and I nearly lost our way. men abusing in the name of christ whom we had to forgive and serve none the less left us broke angry at god. THANK god we jhave since gained a deeper understandin and are now letting the BLOOD OF jESUS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT GUIDE US. LORD HELP THE SHEEP WHO NEED YOU

2. Brent on 01 Aug 2010 at 7:24 am #

   What a sad state where Christians get hurt by leaders and turn septic. The word say’s serve and obey your leaders. It does not say serve if you feel like it. Or serve unless they ask you to tithe etc.
   I rebelled once against one I regarded as off the mark. But God MADE me sit at his feet in true biblical example. Why? Because thats Gods plan and also because that leader is Gods problem not mine. When I finally did God took me out to serve one who taugt Kingdom principles correctly and if I had not learnt the lesson I did, I would not have been able to submit to this othe Pastors leadership properly.
   There is TRUE freedom in serving one who is a true Apostle, one who had fruit and one who’s complete family (4 generations) are in the church. Without that, the leader is false according to scripture as he cannot manage his own family.
   If you cannot find a true spiritual father, hang on until you do – after all, you are God’s problem. If you decide otherwise then you are decidign that God cannot redeem your situation.
   Don’t make the same mistake I did before realising. On the oher hand, making the mistake does make you see clearer!

3. LT on 01 Aug 2010 at 1:59 pm #

   Brent

   I have a question for you. You said “The word say’s serve and obey your leaders.” Could you point me to the places in the bible where it says this?

4. Robert on 02 Aug 2010 at 10:33 pm #

   I am currently in the midst of being ‘distanced’ by several church people at the church where I have attended (‘one of the fastest growing in the nation’ by whoever measures this) for over a year, (and was in their transition to ministry program for 6 mos), because I think I am viewed as ‘being in rebellion!’ by a couple of ‘assoc pastors’. lol. Yes, LT, it is rather silly…how a rockstar pastor can get the ‘hungry for faith’ so fired up that they just ‘know’ they are ‘annointed for this in this generation’, etc, etc….

   Problem for me is, not my rebellion issue, but that this church does not make it transparent to members and visitors that it operates with this ‘Spiritual Authority’ concept – to the severe degree it does. All of the ‘leadership’ folks are under it and accept it (and of course, think they have some special annointing)…but the average Joe and Jane Christian attending knows nothing.

   I’ve been waiting for 2-3 weeks for couple of the elders I use to know…to respond to me (but they are ‘busy’). My simple question to them? “Did I miss something? I was never told this authoritarian structure was in place to the degree it is”. So far, nothing.

5. Sylvia Lazo on 20 Aug 2010 at 7:28 pm #

   The Word doesn’t say ‘serve and obey your leaders’…(There is great freedom in simply READING the Bible for yourself, trusting the Holy Spirit to do His job, that is lead you into all truth and teach you).
   The Bible DOES say that while Christ is the head of my man(my husband.yes I am a woman), & my man is the head of me…that is a Biblical and very safe place for me to be. It doesn’t however, mention anything about a pastor OR worship leader being in authority OVER me.
   I have been in several different local fellowships, one in particular that fully supported the ideas above, showing the full course of Authority and Submission by J Bevere.
   These places that call themselves churches doing the will of God, cause much hurt and damage to people.
   On the other hand, there is a church in Carpinteria, California known as Reality Carpinteria, that our son attends, and is now on staff, that doesn’t actually hold to some ofthese more pathetic and harmful teachings. All I see in Reality is that the people love Jesus and love people….
   I am frankly so tired of ‘churches’ I’m not inclined to attend any any more.

6. neville on 20 Dec 2010 at 1:55 am #

   I’m a minister in my local assembly, and I hate the teachings of submitting your selves to the bishop or lay your gifts at the apostles feet, I believe with all this sham, that its not bringing you no closer to Christ but to man. I saw all the hypocrisy of being elevated in the church, the more money u make and the more butt you kiss the faster man will elevate you. God is a God of order yes I do believe, but God said and the son shall make you free indeed, so ask yourself the question why are we going back to this garbage, the reason is that the flesh is pulling us back in their because of fear, I left that church for 2 years and no lighting struck me and I was able to be used by God under full anointing. Let’s take a look at john the baptist, or even elijah, or even elisha where or who was their spiritual covering, when they was alone, god says they that wait upon the Lord shall renew they strength not in man or their principals but on God I sure hope some one will be blessed God Bless you all the struggle is not over, but with God all things will work together for your Good yes yours.

7. anon on 19 Mar 2011 at 8:08 am #

   I think that churches which have such a hierachical autocratic structure are manipulating and controlling their members. I had been visiting a charismatric church in South Africa which propagates the prosperity gospel and which also enforces this “spirtiual covering concept”. The associate pastor continually tried to get me to become a member, however I kept telling him that I only want to be a visitor because I am trying to decide where I want to go to church. He then told me that I must submit to the authority that God has placed over me! (I was not even a member, and he was trying to place his authority over me NOT God!). I then told him that God has instructed me to test all things, and that luckily for me the Holy Spirit is not manipulative and pushy and I am allowe to choose where I want to go to church. My husband was a member of that church before we were married. Sometimes I go there just to support my husband…..but other times I visit other churches. The one time when I did not accompany my husband, the assoc pastor asked him where I was, and my husband replied that I had gone to a church where they were having a healing service (as I had been struggling with my health). The pastor then replied that I should be going to church with my husband (instead of being empathetic about my struggle and offering to help). Meanwhile I had previously asked that very same pastor to pray with me about my health and he refused – he said “not now, maybe another time”. I end up going to other churches because that church wasn’t able to help me………and because their major focus is on prosperity, not on the great commission to go out and heal the sick, spread the good news, set the captives free…..!

8. Randy on 18 Apr 2011 at 5:16 pm #

   Dear LT,
   Probably a good place to start would be…

   Heb 13:17

   Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

   I see this as submitting to the authority of those who have been placed in a position of covering and authority over you.

9. Randy on 18 Apr 2011 at 5:46 pm #

   Dear Sylvia,
   I am saddened that you are tired of churches and intend not to attend anymore since you are part of the church.
   I agree that some “church” meetings may be more off track and broken than others but please do not give up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing but rather remember that we all need your participation as a beleiver who hears from God and can help to keep us on course.

10. LT on 18 Apr 2011 at 5:49 pm #

    Dear Randy

    I have a whole page dedicated to Heb 13:17.

    http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/scriptures-used-in-covering-theology/heb-1317-obey-your-leaders-and-submit-to-them/

11. Randy on 18 Apr 2011 at 6:02 pm #

    Seems to me that there are alot of broken people here with bitter root judgements about leadership and especially a misunderstanding as to the blessings of authority and covering. And of course there is nobody here unwilling to submit to authority of any kind!! Excuse my sarcasm. I am not discounting that there are some folks here in tough situations but maybe we could look at Noah’s story again. Just a thought.

12. Randy on 18 Apr 2011 at 6:03 pm #

    Thanks LT

13. Randy on 18 Apr 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    LT,
    After reading your page, I still don’t understand why you asked the question of Brent as to where it says this. Which is simply why I answered your question.
    If you are to submit to them, is it not their authority you are submitting to?

14. Randy on 18 Apr 2011 at 6:26 pm #

    By the way, I don’t believe we are ever asked to park our brain and blindly submit to any authority. We are given the mind of Christ and surely ought to use it along with the Holy Spirit’s guidance in discerning who is in authority over us because in this day, even the elect can be decieved. But that is no excuse not to submit to proper authority and live in a spirit of rebellion.

15. Randy on 18 Apr 2011 at 6:32 pm #

    I have to get back to work since I am currently in rebellion according to the people in authority over my work time by not using work time properly and if I continue there will indeed be dire consequences. Ok, I won’t miss the ark but I can’t miss a mortgage payment either.

16. Randy on 18 Apr 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    also, LT, that was a well researched and well written paper. Thank you.

17. LT on 19 May 2011 at 1:30 pm #

    Randy: Sorry it has taken awhile to get back here. I questioned the statement about obey and serving leaders because I don’t see any passages telling me to specifically serve leaders. There are passages that instruct leaders to serve and everyone to serve but I don’t see any passages about people specifically serving leaders.

    The Hebrews 13 passage does pretty clearly layout the benefits and necessity of submission to church leaders. Where I think the authority teaching crosses the line is when people are threatened or coerced through fear mongering in to submission. I’ve been a church leader for 8 years now. I have found that people are more than willing to open up their lives to me when I sincerely love them. If a church leader is honest, sincere, loving and helpful people will submit to them. I also open myself up to the people I lead because I need the ministry of the body and quite frankly sometimes they see things I don’t and hear God when I don’t.

    I don’t think it is fair to label people in this thread as having a “root” of his or “spirit” of that. In my experience spiritual abuse does serious damage and not everyone comes through it sounding fair. Some people are just rebellious, but only God knows people’s hearts. I run in to just as many insecure church leaders who think they need to scare people in to submission so they can feel better about their position in the church. I don’t know their hearts either, so I think guessing at people’s inner motives and issues across the Internet is unhelpful.

18. neville on 28 May 2011 at 3:49 am #

    I totally agree with you Lt you can’t never judge a mans experience or ones stages of pain or fear. I believe God still holds the balm of gilead to heal our souls, but its god who does it, sometimes he uses man and other times he uses just must or even a child to speak through. So if man goes to church god bless him. If a man does not god bless him also. By the way the theif on the cross didn’t have a chance to go to no church anyway, but jesus told him thy sin are forgiven and today we will go to paradise. Its amazing how ppl judge others when they don’t understand their story but just like it says in mathew 15 1-20 to the pharasees leave them alone.

19. American Covering Theology « holubllc on 05 Aug 2011 at 10:15 am #

    [...] Is submission to church leaders necessary for spiritual protection? [...]

20. BB on 08 Aug 2011 at 5:12 pm #

    LT,

    I’m convinced that people like Randy don’t understand that there is NO such thing as “covering”. And they are covinced that the religious system is correct. There is one head of the church and HIS name is JESUS CHRIST the only covering. Randy thinks because he has been blessed to come across a good leader that means covering and submitting to authority no matter what is biblical. However, contrary to popular belief, it’s not. There is NO where in the Bible that states there is an unconditional submission to MAN. Even on your job-submission have its limits unless it will tear down your family life. I willingly submit –not forced to submit. The forced and the fear is the problem!

    Randy. We are not talking about good leadership that submits to God and the people. And that shows honor and respect to those in his congregation no matter if they have a title or not.

    There are people that refuse to submit to anyone but that’s not our problem to bear. Just like Jesus said, the poor will always be among you. So keep feeding the poor with the understanding that they will always be apart of this world. Such as those that refuse to listen-lets pray for them.

21. cindy on 10 Aug 2011 at 7:21 pm #

    I love the example of the tabernacle in the OT. All the stones were fitly joined together and all had a purpose. Like this in the NT each member is vitally important in the body of Christ just as each member of the physical body is important. All have gifts are necessary for proper functioning, some are teachers, some preachers, some the gift of prophecy etc, but all work together. There is only one cornerstone-Jesus Christ. I agree with LT, there is a mutual working together with or submission to each other just as we are all accountable to each other in how we treat each other. Leadership is not only accountable to God alone, but to those in the congregation as well. I know some churches use a quote “Moses model”, but even if they want to use that, there is flaw in their interpretation. Moses did not appoint who was going to be the priests etc…God chose himself in front of the people…was it not Aaron’s rod that budded, not Moses who appointed Aaron. There are too many people who seem to need to be in control at almost any price these days…I have to wonder what their abnormal need for control is based on. Do they lack trust in God to have control?

22. Trina on 11 Oct 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    I decided to leave my church I was apart of for fifteen years.. I belive in the Word of God it is definitely true and has changed my life tremendously, God is an awesome God.. However There was so much spiritual abuse going on in the ministry that I could no longer take it. As I begin to dig deeper in the Word searching God’s truth I begin to realize that I was being taught wrong on so many different levels, It was heart wrenching! In this ministry you couldn’t question the pastor about what was being taught, If you did you were exiled.. If you didn’t tithe or serve you were made to feel guilty or The pastor wouldn’t speak to you & treat you totally different from before. Continue giving four times during service, now don’t get me wrong I’m all for being a blessing to whoever God places on my heart to give to, however you shouldn’t be made to feel bad if you don’t. I know the bible says, Charity starts in the home first as well as you paying your debtors so If I neglect to pay my bills & is coherced into giving to the church doesn’t that mean I’m robbing God or being disobedient to the law that God speaks about in Deuteronomy. I can go on & on about so many different things, just like the scripture Touch not my anointing & do my prophet no harm, So many pastors speak about that scripture as not putting your mouth on the pastor or you will be cursed, when in actuality this scripture means if I vviolently put my hands on them.. As well as needing a covering and I have to obey the pastor and be apart of a ministry in order to be covered, Well I believe that once I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior then my covering is the Blood Of Jesus. So much! So Much! That’s why I believe 2Timothy 2:15 that we must study to show ourselves approved, so that you can rightfully divide the Word of Truth.. I need God’s healing.. I’m Totally broken.. anyone has answers or help me??

23. LT on 28 Oct 2011 at 8:51 pm #

    Hi Trina

    I tried emailing you, but it doesn’t like the address is valid. Send me an email at LT@coveringandauthority.com

24. John H on 03 Nov 2011 at 2:28 am #

    I think Hebrews 13:17 could be better rendered: “Have confidence in those who lead you …” than KJV’s “Obey [3982 peitho] them that have the rule over [2233 hegeomai] you …”

    This frees the Christian up from being “lorded over” (1 Peter 5:1-3) and helps them take the personal responsibility of refusing to follow leaders who lead them astray. If leaders are not leading you according to the rightly divided Word of truth then you shouldn’t have confidence in them and shouldn’t allow them to lead you.

    3982 pei,qw peitho {pi’-tho} • a primary verb; TDNT – 6:1,818; v • AV – persuade 22, trust 8, obey 7, have confidence 6, believe 3, be confident 2, misc 7; 55 • 1) persuade 1a) to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe 1b) to make friends of, to win one’s favour, gain one’s good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one 1c) to tranquillise 1d) to persuade unto i.e. move or induce one to persuasion to do something 2) be persuaded 2a) to be persuaded, to suffer one’s self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith: in a thing 2a1) to believe 2a2) to be persuaded of a thing concerning a person 2b) to listen to, obey,
    yield to, comply with 3) to trust, have confidence, be confident
    2233 h`ge,omai hegeomai {hayg-eh’-om-ahee} • middle voice of a (presumed) strengthened form of 71;TDNT
    - 2:907,303; v • AV – count 10, think 4, esteem 3, have rule over 3, be governor 2, misc 6; 28 • 1) to lead 1a) to go before 1b) to be a leader 1b1) to rule, command 1b2) to have authority over 1b3) a prince, of regal power, governor, viceroy, chief, leading as respects influence, controlling in counsel, overseers or leaders of the churches 1b4) used of any kind of leader, chief, commander 1b5) the leader in speech, chief, spokesman 2) to consider, deem, account, think

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