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	<title>Comments on: Is submission to church leaders necessary for spiritual protection?</title>
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		<title>By: Femi Olowo</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-15481</link>
		<dc:creator>Femi Olowo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>To John H., I believe &quot;3982 peitho&quot; embodies all the following: to be convinced, to be persuaded, to win over, to trust, to obey. Therefore Heb 13:17 can be said to mean &#039;to obey your leaders because you trust them and are convinced of their integrity...&quot; But I do not believe it should translated as &#039;having confidence&#039; instead of &#039;obey&#039;. It should include both concepts. Perhaps it is in the same way that children obey parents because they trust them. If your church is a &quot;safe&quot; church, then your heart should be able to trust safely in your pastors. But if your pastors are manipulative, controlling or lacking in intergity, well...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To John H., I believe &#8220;3982 peitho&#8221; embodies all the following: to be convinced, to be persuaded, to win over, to trust, to obey. Therefore Heb 13:17 can be said to mean &#8216;to obey your leaders because you trust them and are convinced of their integrity&#8230;&#8221; But I do not believe it should translated as &#8216;having confidence&#8217; instead of &#8216;obey&#8217;. It should include both concepts. Perhaps it is in the same way that children obey parents because they trust them. If your church is a &#8220;safe&#8221; church, then your heart should be able to trust safely in your pastors. But if your pastors are manipulative, controlling or lacking in intergity, well&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: johnny</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-15386</link>
		<dc:creator>johnny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2012 20:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>god  bless i really believe that submision is something someone does willingly not by force or by manipulation by another person, true sheep know there PASTOR wich is JESUS CHRIST if someone is speaking and JESUS IS SPEAKING THROUGH THEM TRUE SHEEP WILL KNOW HIS VOICE I MEAN WHO CAN WITHSTAND HIS LOVE, HIS LOVE WILL ALWAYS BREAK US DOWN EVEN WHEN HES DISCIPLING US OR CORRECTING US,MY PRAYERS GO OUT TO THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ABUSED BY CHURCH AUTHORITIES,JESUS CHRIST IS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH THE CHURCH IS HIS WIFE AND IF SOMEONE IS MISTREATING HIS WIFE THATS CALLED IN LEGAL WORDS SPOUSE ABUSE,IT SADDENS ME AND ANGERS ME AT THE SAME TIME I WOULD HATE SOMEONE TO MISTREAT MY WIFE AND MY TWO PRETTY DAUGHTERS I DONT KNOW WHAT I MIGHT DO YEAH I KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO, GOD BLESS AND TRUST JESUS CHRIST HE IS OUR TRUE COVERING</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>god  bless i really believe that submision is something someone does willingly not by force or by manipulation by another person, true sheep know there PASTOR wich is JESUS CHRIST if someone is speaking and JESUS IS SPEAKING THROUGH THEM TRUE SHEEP WILL KNOW HIS VOICE I MEAN WHO CAN WITHSTAND HIS LOVE, HIS LOVE WILL ALWAYS BREAK US DOWN EVEN WHEN HES DISCIPLING US OR CORRECTING US,MY PRAYERS GO OUT TO THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ABUSED BY CHURCH AUTHORITIES,JESUS CHRIST IS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH THE CHURCH IS HIS WIFE AND IF SOMEONE IS MISTREATING HIS WIFE THATS CALLED IN LEGAL WORDS SPOUSE ABUSE,IT SADDENS ME AND ANGERS ME AT THE SAME TIME I WOULD HATE SOMEONE TO MISTREAT MY WIFE AND MY TWO PRETTY DAUGHTERS I DONT KNOW WHAT I MIGHT DO YEAH I KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO, GOD BLESS AND TRUST JESUS CHRIST HE IS OUR TRUE COVERING</p>
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		<title>By: Tanya</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-15098</link>
		<dc:creator>Tanya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=88#comment-15098</guid>
		<description>WOW!  I just want to say you guys rock!  This is how we find out what the Truths is, by being open and discussing it.  With people like LT and John H contributing with wonderful gifts for knowledge.

LT thanks so much for taking the time and effort to set this site up - revelation of the Word has definitely set me free from feeling like i was being a rebellious christian.  I absolutely agree with submitting to each other in the Lord.  It is only wise to get council and advise on any number of matters before making a decision and what better way to know that you are loved when you have some one to correct you when you a deviating from the word of God. However, I just can&#039;t get behind having to ask someone&#039;s permission to move house or change jobs.....  And honestly as a woman, I have still to find the scripture where it says that God created me less than a man, or that only men can make doctrinal decisions.

I think that scripture is also quite clear that if you allow someone to be your &quot;covering&quot; you are creating an idol above God....1 Tim 2 vs 1-6, Jesus is our only access to God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WOW!  I just want to say you guys rock!  This is how we find out what the Truths is, by being open and discussing it.  With people like LT and John H contributing with wonderful gifts for knowledge.</p>
<p>LT thanks so much for taking the time and effort to set this site up &#8211; revelation of the Word has definitely set me free from feeling like i was being a rebellious christian.  I absolutely agree with submitting to each other in the Lord.  It is only wise to get council and advise on any number of matters before making a decision and what better way to know that you are loved when you have some one to correct you when you a deviating from the word of God. However, I just can&#8217;t get behind having to ask someone&#8217;s permission to move house or change jobs&#8230;..  And honestly as a woman, I have still to find the scripture where it says that God created me less than a man, or that only men can make doctrinal decisions.</p>
<p>I think that scripture is also quite clear that if you allow someone to be your &#8220;covering&#8221; you are creating an idol above God&#8230;.1 Tim 2 vs 1-6, Jesus is our only access to God.</p>
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		<title>By: John H</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-13953</link>
		<dc:creator>John H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2011 02:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=88#comment-13953</guid>
		<description>I think Hebrews 13:17 could be better rendered: &quot;Have confidence in those who lead you ...&quot; than KJV&#039;s &quot;Obey [3982 peitho] them that have the rule over [2233 hegeomai] you ...&quot;

This frees the Christian up from being &quot;lorded over&quot; (1 Peter 5:1-3) and helps them take the personal responsibility of refusing to follow leaders who lead them astray.  If leaders are not leading you according to the rightly divided Word of truth then you shouldn&#039;t have confidence in them and shouldn&#039;t allow them to lead you.

3982 pei,qw peitho {pi&#039;-tho}  •  a primary verb; TDNT - 6:1,818; v •  AV - persuade 22, trust 8, obey 7, have confidence 6, believe 3, be confident 2, misc 7; 55 •  1) persuade 1a) to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe 1b) to make friends of, to win one&#039;s  favour, gain one&#039;s good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one 1c) to tranquillise 1d) to persuade  unto i.e. move or induce one to persuasion to do something 2) be persuaded 2a) to be persuaded, to suffer  one&#039;s self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith: in a thing 2a1) to believe 2a2) to be  persuaded of a thing concerning a person 2b) to listen to, obey, 
yield to, comply with 3) to trust, have  confidence, be confident 
2233 h`ge,omai hegeomai {hayg-eh&#039;-om-ahee}  •  middle voice of a (presumed) strengthened form of 71;TDNT 
- 2:907,303; v •  AV - count 10, think 4, esteem 3, have rule over 3, be governor 2, misc 6; 28 •  1) to lead 1a) to go before 1b) to be a leader 1b1) to rule, command 1b2) to have authority over 1b3) a  prince, of regal power, governor, viceroy, chief, leading as respects influence, controlling in counsel,  overseers or leaders of the churches 1b4) used of any kind of leader, chief, commander 1b5) the leader in  speech, chief, spokesman 2) to consider, deem, account, think</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Hebrews 13:17 could be better rendered: &#8220;Have confidence in those who lead you &#8230;&#8221; than KJV&#8217;s &#8220;Obey [3982 peitho] them that have the rule over [2233 hegeomai] you &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>This frees the Christian up from being &#8220;lorded over&#8221; (1 Peter 5:1-3) and helps them take the personal responsibility of refusing to follow leaders who lead them astray.  If leaders are not leading you according to the rightly divided Word of truth then you shouldn&#8217;t have confidence in them and shouldn&#8217;t allow them to lead you.</p>
<p>3982 pei,qw peitho {pi&#8217;-tho}  •  a primary verb; TDNT &#8211; 6:1,818; v •  AV &#8211; persuade 22, trust 8, obey 7, have confidence 6, believe 3, be confident 2, misc 7; 55 •  1) persuade 1a) to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe 1b) to make friends of, to win one&#8217;s  favour, gain one&#8217;s good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one 1c) to tranquillise 1d) to persuade  unto i.e. move or induce one to persuasion to do something 2) be persuaded 2a) to be persuaded, to suffer  one&#8217;s self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith: in a thing 2a1) to believe 2a2) to be  persuaded of a thing concerning a person 2b) to listen to, obey,<br />
yield to, comply with 3) to trust, have  confidence, be confident<br />
2233 h`ge,omai hegeomai {hayg-eh&#8217;-om-ahee}  •  middle voice of a (presumed) strengthened form of 71;TDNT<br />
- 2:907,303; v •  AV &#8211; count 10, think 4, esteem 3, have rule over 3, be governor 2, misc 6; 28 •  1) to lead 1a) to go before 1b) to be a leader 1b1) to rule, command 1b2) to have authority over 1b3) a  prince, of regal power, governor, viceroy, chief, leading as respects influence, controlling in counsel,  overseers or leaders of the churches 1b4) used of any kind of leader, chief, commander 1b5) the leader in  speech, chief, spokesman 2) to consider, deem, account, think</p>
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		<title>By: LT</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-13896</link>
		<dc:creator>LT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 20:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=88#comment-13896</guid>
		<description>Hi Trina

I tried emailing you, but it doesn&#039;t like the address is valid.  Send me an email at LT@coveringandauthority.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Trina</p>
<p>I tried emailing you, but it doesn&#8217;t like the address is valid.  Send me an email at <a href="mailto:LT@coveringandauthority.com">LT@coveringandauthority.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Trina</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-13731</link>
		<dc:creator>Trina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I decided to leave my church I was apart of for fifteen years.. I belive in the Word of God it is definitely true and has changed my life tremendously, God is an awesome God.. However There was so much spiritual abuse going on in the ministry that I could no longer take it. As I begin to dig deeper in the Word searching God&#039;s truth I begin to realize that I was being taught wrong on so many different levels, It was heart wrenching! In this ministry you couldn&#039;t question the pastor about what was being taught, If you did you were exiled.. If you didn&#039;t tithe or serve you were made to feel guilty or The pastor wouldn&#039;t speak to you &amp; treat you totally different from before. Continue giving four times during service, now don&#039;t get me wrong I&#039;m all for being a blessing to whoever God places on my heart to give to, however you shouldn&#039;t be made to feel bad if you don&#039;t. I know the bible says, Charity starts in the home first as well as you paying your debtors so If I neglect to pay my bills &amp; is coherced into giving to the church doesn&#039;t that mean I&#039;m robbing God or being disobedient to the law that God speaks about in Deuteronomy. I can go on &amp; on about so many different things, just like the scripture Touch not my anointing &amp; do my prophet no harm, So many pastors speak about that scripture as not putting your mouth on the pastor or you will be cursed, when in actuality this scripture means if I vviolently put my hands on them.. As well as needing a covering and I have to obey the pastor and be apart of a ministry in order to be covered, Well I believe that once I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior then my covering is the Blood Of Jesus. So much! So Much! That&#039;s why I believe 2Timothy 2:15 that we must study to show ourselves approved, so that you can rightfully divide the Word of Truth.. I need God&#039;s healing..  I&#039;m Totally broken.. anyone has answers or help me??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I decided to leave my church I was apart of for fifteen years.. I belive in the Word of God it is definitely true and has changed my life tremendously, God is an awesome God.. However There was so much spiritual abuse going on in the ministry that I could no longer take it. As I begin to dig deeper in the Word searching God&#8217;s truth I begin to realize that I was being taught wrong on so many different levels, It was heart wrenching! In this ministry you couldn&#8217;t question the pastor about what was being taught, If you did you were exiled.. If you didn&#8217;t tithe or serve you were made to feel guilty or The pastor wouldn&#8217;t speak to you &amp; treat you totally different from before. Continue giving four times during service, now don&#8217;t get me wrong I&#8217;m all for being a blessing to whoever God places on my heart to give to, however you shouldn&#8217;t be made to feel bad if you don&#8217;t. I know the bible says, Charity starts in the home first as well as you paying your debtors so If I neglect to pay my bills &amp; is coherced into giving to the church doesn&#8217;t that mean I&#8217;m robbing God or being disobedient to the law that God speaks about in Deuteronomy. I can go on &amp; on about so many different things, just like the scripture Touch not my anointing &amp; do my prophet no harm, So many pastors speak about that scripture as not putting your mouth on the pastor or you will be cursed, when in actuality this scripture means if I vviolently put my hands on them.. As well as needing a covering and I have to obey the pastor and be apart of a ministry in order to be covered, Well I believe that once I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior then my covering is the Blood Of Jesus. So much! So Much! That&#8217;s why I believe 2Timothy 2:15 that we must study to show ourselves approved, so that you can rightfully divide the Word of Truth.. I need God&#8217;s healing..  I&#8217;m Totally broken.. anyone has answers or help me??</p>
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		<title>By: cindy</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-13181</link>
		<dc:creator>cindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=88#comment-13181</guid>
		<description>I love the example of the tabernacle in the OT.  All the stones were fitly joined together and all had a purpose. Like this in the NT each member is vitally important in the body of Christ just as each member of the physical body is important.  All have gifts are necessary for proper functioning, some are teachers, some preachers, some the gift of prophecy etc, but all work together.  There is only one cornerstone-Jesus Christ.  I agree with LT, there is a mutual working together with or submission to each other just as we are all accountable to each other in how we treat each other.  Leadership is not only accountable to God alone, but to those in the congregation as well.  I know some churches use a quote &quot;Moses model&quot;, but even if they want to use that, there is flaw in their interpretation.  Moses did not appoint who was going to be the priests etc...God chose himself in front of the people...was it not Aaron&#039;s rod that budded, not Moses who appointed Aaron.  There are too many people who seem to need to be in control at almost any price these days...I have to wonder what their abnormal need for control is based on.  Do they lack trust in God to have control?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the example of the tabernacle in the OT.  All the stones were fitly joined together and all had a purpose. Like this in the NT each member is vitally important in the body of Christ just as each member of the physical body is important.  All have gifts are necessary for proper functioning, some are teachers, some preachers, some the gift of prophecy etc, but all work together.  There is only one cornerstone-Jesus Christ.  I agree with LT, there is a mutual working together with or submission to each other just as we are all accountable to each other in how we treat each other.  Leadership is not only accountable to God alone, but to those in the congregation as well.  I know some churches use a quote &#8220;Moses model&#8221;, but even if they want to use that, there is flaw in their interpretation.  Moses did not appoint who was going to be the priests etc&#8230;God chose himself in front of the people&#8230;was it not Aaron&#8217;s rod that budded, not Moses who appointed Aaron.  There are too many people who seem to need to be in control at almost any price these days&#8230;I have to wonder what their abnormal need for control is based on.  Do they lack trust in God to have control?</p>
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		<title>By: BB</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-13164</link>
		<dc:creator>BB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 17:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=88#comment-13164</guid>
		<description>LT, 

I’m convinced that people like Randy don’t understand that there is NO such thing as “covering”. And they are covinced that the religious system is correct. There is one head of the church and HIS name is JESUS CHRIST the only covering.  Randy thinks because he has been blessed to come across a good leader that means covering and submitting to authority no matter what is biblical. However, contrary to popular belief, it’s not.  There is NO where in the Bible that states there is an unconditional submission to MAN.  Even on your job-submission have its limits unless it will tear down your family life.  I willingly submit –not forced to submit. The forced and the fear is the problem!  

Randy. We are not talking about good leadership that submits to God and the people. And that shows honor and respect to those in his congregation no matter if they have a title or not.

There are people that refuse to submit to anyone but that&#039;s not our problem to bear. Just like Jesus said, the poor will always be among you. So keep feeding the poor with the understanding that they will always be apart of this world.  Such as those that refuse to listen-lets pray for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LT, </p>
<p>I’m convinced that people like Randy don’t understand that there is NO such thing as “covering”. And they are covinced that the religious system is correct. There is one head of the church and HIS name is JESUS CHRIST the only covering.  Randy thinks because he has been blessed to come across a good leader that means covering and submitting to authority no matter what is biblical. However, contrary to popular belief, it’s not.  There is NO where in the Bible that states there is an unconditional submission to MAN.  Even on your job-submission have its limits unless it will tear down your family life.  I willingly submit –not forced to submit. The forced and the fear is the problem!  </p>
<p>Randy. We are not talking about good leadership that submits to God and the people. And that shows honor and respect to those in his congregation no matter if they have a title or not.</p>
<p>There are people that refuse to submit to anyone but that&#8217;s not our problem to bear. Just like Jesus said, the poor will always be among you. So keep feeding the poor with the understanding that they will always be apart of this world.  Such as those that refuse to listen-lets pray for them.</p>
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		<title>By: American Covering Theology &#171; holubllc</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-13136</link>
		<dc:creator>American Covering Theology &#171; holubllc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=88#comment-13136</guid>
		<description>[...] Is submission to church leaders necessary for spiritual protection? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Is submission to church leaders necessary for spiritual protection? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: neville</title>
		<link>http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/difficult-questions-about-covering-and-authority/does-being-submitted-to-church-leaders-provide-me-with-spiritual-protection/comment-page-1/#comment-11703</link>
		<dc:creator>neville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 May 2011 03:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coveringandauthority.com/?page_id=88#comment-11703</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with you Lt you can&#039;t never judge a mans experience or ones stages of pain or fear. I believe God still holds the balm of gilead to heal our souls, but its god who does it, sometimes he uses man and other times he uses just must or even a child to speak through. So if man goes to church god bless him. If a man does not god bless him also. By the way the theif on the cross didn&#039;t have a chance to go to no church anyway, but jesus told him thy sin are forgiven and today we will go to paradise. Its amazing how ppl judge others when they don&#039;t understand their story but just like it says in mathew 15 1-20 to the pharasees leave them alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with you Lt you can&#8217;t never judge a mans experience or ones stages of pain or fear. I believe God still holds the balm of gilead to heal our souls, but its god who does it, sometimes he uses man and other times he uses just must or even a child to speak through. So if man goes to church god bless him. If a man does not god bless him also. By the way the theif on the cross didn&#8217;t have a chance to go to no church anyway, but jesus told him thy sin are forgiven and today we will go to paradise. Its amazing how ppl judge others when they don&#8217;t understand their story but just like it says in mathew 15 1-20 to the pharasees leave them alone.</p>
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