Comments on: Heb 13:17 http://coveringandauthority.com Fri, 18 May 2012 16:57:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Beansters http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/scriptures-used-in-covering-theology/heb-1317-obey-your-leaders-and-submit-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-15698 Beansters Fri, 18 May 2012 16:57:45 +0000 http://organicchurch.ca/?page_id=12#comment-15698 Hi there... just stumbled over this... well it is excellent! for almost 20 years this specific scripture was trotted out so many times in order to ensure the fellowship did exactly as the leadership said and as in the case of JDA above, if you actually dared raise a question, you became the problem and the wrath of God would likely fall on your for daring to question or touch the Lord's annointed one! hmmm well the "That they will give an account..." bit was delivered as a doctrine that come the day of judgement, the apostle claimed he would be called before God and give an account of the lives of those in his charge. This account would then become the basis of where God placed you in heaven for all eternity. His teaching was that if he were to give God a poor account of how you obeyed and lived your life, it would be bad for you and seriously affect your standing in heaven, but that a good account would place you in pole position. mental i know... i personally thought it would affect his standing far more than mine as i always believed this account would be his being called to account for how he watched out over the souls of those under his care... This scripture is used in such a controlling way and turned into a whipping stick in order to gain and maintain total control over people. This piece presented here is excellent. Thank you for putting it out there. In ref to JDA... my advice to you would be "get out"... I took this stuff for almost 2 decades and it had a very bad effect. It is spiritual abuse and scriptural abuse and no one should yield their will to a man or woman, but to Christ and Him alone. Faith works by love, not by fear and this awful means of controlling people is all based on fear and keeping the sheep from bleeting. If it walks like a duck n quacks like a duck, it's likely to be a duck! Fearfulness and control are not qualities you find listed in the fruits of the spirit. Blessings to all who are searching for scriptural truth. x Hi there… just stumbled over this… well it is excellent!
for almost 20 years this specific scripture was trotted out so many times in order to ensure the fellowship did exactly as the leadership said and as in the case of JDA above, if you actually dared raise a question, you became the problem and the wrath of God would likely fall on your for daring to question or touch the Lord’s annointed one! hmmm well the “That they will give an account…” bit was delivered as a doctrine that come the day of judgement, the apostle claimed he would be called before God and give an account of the lives of those in his charge. This account would then become the basis of where God placed you in heaven for all eternity. His teaching was that if he were to give God a poor account of how you obeyed and lived your life, it would be bad for you and seriously affect your standing in heaven, but that a good account would place you in pole position. mental i know… i personally thought it would affect his standing far more than mine as i always believed this account would be his being called to account for how he watched out over the souls of those under his care… This scripture is used in such a controlling way and turned into a whipping stick in order to gain and maintain total control over people.

This piece presented here is excellent.
Thank you for putting it out there.

In ref to JDA… my advice to you would be “get out”… I took this stuff for almost 2 decades and it had a very bad effect. It is spiritual abuse and scriptural abuse and no one should yield their will to a man or woman, but to Christ and Him alone. Faith works by love, not by fear and this awful means of controlling people is all based on fear and keeping the sheep from bleeting.
If it walks like a duck n quacks like a duck, it’s likely to be a duck! Fearfulness and control are not qualities you find listed in the fruits of the spirit.

Blessings to all who are searching for scriptural truth. x

]]> By: CHONA http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/scriptures-used-in-covering-theology/heb-1317-obey-your-leaders-and-submit-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-15260 CHONA Thu, 01 Mar 2012 02:39:28 +0000 http://organicchurch.ca/?page_id=12#comment-15260 Thank you Lord, I'm free now for the leader claiming that in submission to him there is annoiting.. 1john 2:27 Thank you Lord, I’m free now for the leader claiming that in submission to him there is annoiting..
1john 2:27

]]> By: Bertie Boy http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/scriptures-used-in-covering-theology/heb-1317-obey-your-leaders-and-submit-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-14457 Bertie Boy Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:50:15 +0000 http://organicchurch.ca/?page_id=12#comment-14457 I was specifically looking up commentary on Heb 13:17. Your commentary was quite helpful, but seemed to lack appreciation to the period and context in which it (and v. 7; and 1Thes 5:12-13) were written. There was no New Testemant text at that time, and certainly not the compilation we have today. This message would apply to those leaders specifically known by the author(s) and would not universally apply to all leaders in the church for all times, as there were many gnostic, and other perverse teachings. Yeilding to the will of God through Jesus Christ is the most important yeilding one should consider. This yeilding to Christ brings with it the Holy Ghost of whom John said, "But ythe annointing which ye have recieved of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same annointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." 1John 2:27 Paul agreed with this and wrote to the Corinthians, "But as it is written {Isiah 64:4}, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared tor them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Which things also we speak not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them because they are spiritually descerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, ye he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord , that he may in struct him? But we have the mind of Christ." 1Cor 2:9-16 I was specifically looking up commentary on Heb 13:17. Your commentary was quite helpful, but seemed to lack appreciation to the period and context in which it (and v. 7; and 1Thes 5:12-13) were written. There was no New Testemant text at that time, and certainly not the compilation we have today. This message would apply to those leaders specifically known by the author(s) and would not universally apply to all leaders in the church for all times, as there were many gnostic, and other perverse teachings.
Yeilding to the will of God through Jesus Christ is the most important yeilding one should consider. This yeilding to Christ brings with it the Holy Ghost of whom John said, “But ythe annointing which ye have recieved of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same annointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.” 1John 2:27
Paul agreed with this and wrote to the Corinthians, “But as it is written {Isiah 64:4}, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared tor them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Which things also we speak not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them because they are spiritually descerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, ye he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord , that he may in struct him? But we have the mind of Christ.” 1Cor 2:9-16

]]> By: John H http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/scriptures-used-in-covering-theology/heb-1317-obey-your-leaders-and-submit-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-13977 John H Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:08:51 +0000 http://organicchurch.ca/?page_id=12#comment-13977 Pretty good article. "... the person doing the obeying still has the right and the obligation to be discerning." Absolutely! Pretty good article.
“… the person doing the obeying still has the right and the obligation to be discerning.”
Absolutely!

]]> By: JDA http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/scriptures-used-in-covering-theology/heb-1317-obey-your-leaders-and-submit-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-13262 JDA Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:51:26 +0000 http://organicchurch.ca/?page_id=12#comment-13262 This was very helpful thank you. Question What do you do when you feel like the pride of the leader will affect the whole congregation and u feel like there is no way to approach him about it. There is no elders in the church to talk to and everyone is almost a babe and the mature ones are brand new to the ministry. So when you go to the pastor's apostle and tell him how you feel and your need for counsil, he freaks out because of the fact your out of order bring accusation against a elder when you were not trying to gossip or Bring accusation. Just bringing your feelings and concerns and asking for wisdom? What is the proper way to get counsel on this? Take this as thereticle not as happening as fact thanks This was very helpful thank you.

Question
What do you do when you feel like the pride of the leader will affect the whole congregation and u feel like there is no way to approach him about it. There is no elders in the church to talk to and everyone is almost a babe and the mature ones are brand new to the ministry. So when you go to the pastor’s apostle and tell him how you feel and your need for counsil, he freaks out because of the fact your out of order bring accusation against a elder when you were not trying to gossip or Bring accusation. Just bringing your feelings and concerns and asking for wisdom?

What is the proper way to get counsel on this? Take this as thereticle not as happening as fact thanks

]]> By: American Covering Theology « holubllc http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/scriptures-used-in-covering-theology/heb-1317-obey-your-leaders-and-submit-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-13144 American Covering Theology « holubllc Fri, 05 Aug 2011 11:38:49 +0000 http://organicchurch.ca/?page_id=12#comment-13144 [...] Heb 13:17 – “Obey your leaders and submit to them” [...] [...] Heb 13:17 – “Obey your leaders and submit to them” [...]

]]> By: Mark http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/scriptures-used-in-covering-theology/heb-1317-obey-your-leaders-and-submit-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-5020 Mark Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:21:40 +0000 http://organicchurch.ca/?page_id=12#comment-5020 I came across this post doing a google search to find info on the greek word for "leader" in Hebrews 13. Your post, although not exactly matching my search, gave the information I desired, as I really was after info on "obey". Your post was most helpful. Mark I came across this post doing a google search to find info on the greek word for “leader” in Hebrews 13. Your post, although not exactly matching my search, gave the information I desired, as I really was after info on “obey”. Your post was most helpful.

Mark

]]> By: Eric Padilla http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/scriptures-used-in-covering-theology/heb-1317-obey-your-leaders-and-submit-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-2859 Eric Padilla Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:04:30 +0000 http://organicchurch.ca/?page_id=12#comment-2859 I just started to read your article and it challenged me to understand covering and for this I "thank you" One questions I have is that you did not refer to the KJV, why? Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. Obey is also translated (Strong): to rely (by inward certainty): - agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield. We are to "trust" "yield" 'believe" and "have confidence" with those who "rule over us" Rule: he?geomai Thayer Definition: to lead, to be a leader, to rule, command, to have authority over, leading as respects influence, overseers or leaders of the churches Summit hupeiko? to yield to surrender: - submit self. We have to summit ourselves to God first and to the Leadership God has placed in the church. It is out of balance that some church rule with an iron hand and treat people like they own them, NOT GOD plan. Again, thank you for your article, it helped me very much. I just started to read your article and it challenged me to understand covering and for this I “thank you”
One questions I have is that you did not refer to the KJV, why?

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Obey is also translated (Strong): to rely (by inward certainty): – agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.

We are to “trust” “yield” ‘believe” and “have confidence” with those who “rule over us”

Rule: he?geomai
Thayer Definition:
to lead, to be a leader, to rule, command, to have authority over, leading as respects influence, overseers or leaders of the churches

Summit hupeiko?
to yield to surrender: – submit self.

We have to summit ourselves to God first and to the Leadership God has placed in the church.

It is out of balance that some church rule with an iron hand and treat people like they own them, NOT GOD plan.

Again, thank you for your article, it helped me very much.

]]> By: thrufaithalone http://coveringandauthority.com/covering-and-apostolic-authority/scriptures-used-in-covering-theology/heb-1317-obey-your-leaders-and-submit-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-2496 thrufaithalone Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:04:26 +0000 http://organicchurch.ca/?page_id=12#comment-2496 I really appreciate the "key difference between obedience to authority and obedience to persuasion is that the person doing the obeying still has the right and the obligation to be discerning." Thank you! I really appreciate the “key difference between obedience to authority and obedience to persuasion is that the person doing the obeying still has the right and the obligation to be discerning.” Thank you!

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