Comments on: Why it is false

By: Dan Petrie

Dan Petrie — Thu, 01 Sep 2011 16:29:41 +0000

Hello all,
I love this page, I think it is allowing others to learn to be more cautious when joining a church and that is good. However, I do believe that you can really tell when a church is trying to control you or just help you grow by holding you accountable! I love my church in Rockford IL, it is a church over just over 2,000 and it has done nothing but grow, they are relational, they love people and it is amazing to be a part of something like this. I submit to my Spiritual Authority in a sense of confession, getting light into darkness, remaining focused, they really hold me accountable and its like bouncing things off of them to get wisdom…if they are all saying the same thing and in my heart I know what God is telling me then I know its probably right. So in that sense I think some churches enter this with good intentions but go estray with power, some on the other hand take the leadership and use it for good and really do have pure hearts. Thanks for posting!
Dan

By: Arce

Arce — Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:02:52 +0000

Biblical submission, other than to Christ, is mutual, to each other. Thus a pastor is to submit to each and every member of the congregation as each is to submit to the pastor. And Jesus taught that to be a leader meant to be the servant of those being led, not the dictator over them. So the spirit of submission is humbleness and a servant heart, not handing out sanctions to the flock by some self-appointed leader.

By: Robert

Robert — Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:50:04 +0000

Excellent points, LT. I have experienced some ‘authoritarian arrogance’ recently. I was a small group leader in my non-denom church. A busy-body, ambitious member reported to the pastors that I had ‘a glass of wine’ at a restaurant bar….so the pastor ‘called me in’ and tried to chastise me. I defended my character appropriately. Later, they wouldn’t let me be a small group leader anymore, nor serve communion as I had been scheduled.
Yes…I was ‘in rebellion’ they had decided. So I s’pose they were punishing me.
I met with them again, and they denied they were an ‘authoritarian’ church structure….then proceeded to talk harshly to me, tell me I had lied to them that I would never ‘drink’ in a bar, and when I acted like I was amazed at what was happening, they told me I ‘did not respect them as pastors’! I wish I had it all on video. Behind closed doors with them was totally different than what is presented by the Sr Pastor on stage!
Fortunately, I am mature in Christ and can see it for what it is.
Thanks so much for your time spent in keeping this website current…..I’ll bet we see more of this type behavior.

By: WALTER KAMBULOW

WALTER KAMBULOW — Sun, 29 Aug 2010 07:40:35 +0000

“And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, ‘ These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. “But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. “Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. ‘Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. Revelation 2:13-16

“Nicolaitans” means “Victorious over the people; a follower of Nicolaus, a heretic.” Anyone who uses their leadership position to manipulate others is bumping up against the thing Jesus hates. The Lord wants us to be under His control, no one else’s. But even He doesn’t use such tactics of manipulation. He wants willing obedience, not contrived. Our acceptance was paid for on the cross, therefore we need not be man- pleasers. Jesus rules by example and through serving but Nicolaitans rules through manipulation and control.

Nicolaitan authority is false authority. Therefore a believer is not required to submit to it. In fact he should take dominion over it. Nicolaitan authorities may try to label us as rebels, but Christ must reign supreme, regardless of what others say.

The root of the word Nicolaitans comes from Greek nikao, to conquer or overcome, and laos, which means people and which the word laity comes from. The two words together especially means the destruction of the people and refers to the earliest form of what we call a priestly order or clergy which later on in church history divided people and allowed for leadership other than those led by the spirit of the risen Lord Jesus Christ. A good translation of Nicolaitan would be “those who prevail over the people.” This clerical system later developed into the papal hierarchy of priests and clergy lording over the flock. The Council of Trent stated, “If anyone shall say that there is not in the Catholic Church a hierarchy established by the divine ordination, consisting of bishops, presbyters and ministers, let him be anathema.” This very idea was taken over by the Protestants with their own corruption of church leadership. The Church of Ephesus was commended for hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans. The wrong separation of the clergy from the laity is a great evil in God’s sight and He hates the lust for religious power. There is an ungodly spiritual authority in the Church today, which is nothing more than the prideful spirit of control, manipulation, domination and intimidation and a rebellion of the rightful authority of God.

By: LT

LT — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:32:55 +0000

Chaneth

I’m only going to teach what I see in scripture. I don’t put forth an alternative model of leadership because I think there are several approaches to church leadership that I find acceptable. I don’t want a debate over acceptable approaches to distract from the issue I’m attempting to address.

I believe that all authority has been given to Jesus, and our most reliable way of understanding what His will is, is found in scripture. We can be convinced and convicted all we want about this teaching or that, but it if doesn’t square with scripture it is very likely we are in rebellion to our ultimate authority: God.

By: Chaneth

Chaneth — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:33:44 +0000

Regards servant of God;

Thanks for the material herein presented. But I think it is very important to submit under some spiritual authority. It must not be particular or specific. If your problem is with just one of the reasons for which submitting is taught, it could be expedient to so present the matter in a way that does not completely rule out submission to authority. The truth is that there has been abuse; but that does not make the whole teaching of submission false. A man’s walk with the Lord depends so much on maturity. When someone starts taking some decisions and sealing them in one way or the other, it portrays growth. Believe me, the person to whom I submit as father in the Lord entered a covenant with God that he can never die by motor accident; and as I submit to him, I know I am covered by this covenant. Please let’s teach that some people in authority have abused those who submit to them but I am convicted and convinced that there is less evil if at all in covering theology than is presented by those who teach against it.

May the Lord bless us all to be able to understand His word and His teachings both on issues that are Biblical and on issues that are Scriptural

By: Audrey James

Audrey James — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 00:10:45 +0000

Thank God for me discovering your page its a blessing to me at this time of my christian walk,it will be of great help to me. Thank you, of a truth only what we do for Christ will last or will we be able to stand in these testing times. My heart aches for truth in how to walk in understanding of God’s word,i pray everyday to God for it, to better my understanding for i don’t want to be yoked up, but to walk in humility of honoring those set over me but not to be taken advantage of by those in authority for it seem to be the in thing and my heart break and i am before God in tears over this. It was a relief to stumble across your page God bless you i believe you are a answer to my prayer.

I encourage you to keep,keeping on in the task of placing some of what God has place in you for seekers such as I. Thank you again and may God richly blesses you ministry.